Debug Blue Pill with Stlink-V3minie

[MaurizioAndaloro]

HI!

I recently purchased some ST products, attempting to program and debug.

I initially purchased a STM32 Blue Pill (STM32f103) along with a Mini St-Link V2 (Clone). Then I purchased an STM32F3VE board.

I was able to program both boards using ST-LINKV2 (clone) and CubeProgrammer but not to debug via CubeIde, as I understand ST no longer allows debugging via cloned STlink.

Wanting to debug I purchased a STLINK-V3minie, but I can't even connect with the CubeProgrammer Software to both cards. I have checked the connections over and over again and they are correct.

I changed the firmware version of the Minie, believe me I've tried them all. I checked with the oscilloscope whether the CLOCK/Data are present, and everything is OK.

What do you think about it? Is it possible that the cards have cloned chips and therefore the minie doesn't connect? If, yes, how can I check from CubeProgrammer whether they are genuine ST or not? Looking at the ICs case/mark they look Genuine.

Thanks in advance

 

[Andrew Neil]

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

I recently purchased some ST products

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Note that the Blue Pill is not an ST product, and the chip on it will (almost) certainly not be genuine.

 

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

Is it possible that the cards have cloned chips

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It's as good as certain that they are not genuine!

Save yourself a load of grief, and just get a genuine Nucleo board - with the included genuine ST-Link, it possibly even works out cheaper than a Blue Pill plus clone ST-Link!

 

See this thread for a recent example of the tale of woe resulting from the bluepill fakery:

https://community.st.com/t5/stm32-mcus-products/blue-pill-stm32f1-board-gets-programmed-through-arduino-ide-but/td-p/667923

 

 

[TDK]

See here for some tests:

Bluepill Diagnostics — Mecrisp Stellaris Unofficial 1.0 documentation (sourceforge.io)

 

Or the common sense test which is a lot faster and probably just as reliable:

Did you buy it from a reputable supplier? If not, it's fake. (This is a bit of trick question, as no reputable supplier sells a "blue pill" board.)

[BarryWhit]

Did I miss a news cycle? what is the source of your claim that ST "now longer allows"  debugging vis fake STLINK (i.e. that there's been a software change in a recent release)? is this based on any hard evidence, or are you just having trouble with your board and jumping to conclusions?

 

Years ago, when FTDI pushed out a driver update that made fake versions of their chips break (and then when they retracted it, and then when they put out another hostile update later on), it made a huge noise in maker/EE circles. But I haven't heard anything of the kind, and I look at this forum almost every day.

 

What I do know, and this is nothing new, is that cloned chips and clone programmers are often more trouble than they're worth, and that ST (quite reasonably) will not provide support for cloned products. So "buy original products" is good advice, especially if you're not a strapped teen or student, where every 10 bucks makes a difference.

 

That said, and unless you point me at a bombshell news item, none of the symptoms you described sound to me like indicators of fake products. At the very least, you can download an old release of CubeProgrammer and try again. If that doesn't work either, I doubt a new stealth anti-counterfeiting campaign by ST is the cause of your current difficulties.

 

[MaurizioAndaloro]

Hi Barry,

I'm new in ST World and trying to find a solution of my problems i read somewhere that ST do not allow Clones, i don't know exactly if it works or not.

That's it, i'm here to learn more about ST Components and then make my own board.

But i'de like to have a working enviroment and actually i'm able to program 2 AlienExpress boards using a Clone STLinkV2 but not with a Genuine STLinkV3minie, just trying to understand why.

Now i want to know if the STM32F103 and the STM32F407 soldered are a fakeones or not, maybe using the blue pill diagnostic tool as suggested but the USB do not seems to work properly ( device descriptor request failed) and i'm already thinking to buy a Genuine IC and replace it with hot air on both Boards.

But i'de like also understand what's going on, and i'm just asking help regarding STLink-V3minie and why not connects.. that it..

[Andrew Neil]

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

But i'd like to have a working environment ..

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Then just get a Nucleo board - you will save yourself a huge amount of grief (see the previously-linked threads).

 

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

i'm able to program 2 AlienExpress boards using a Clone STLinkV2 but not with a Genuine STLinkV3minie, just trying to understand why...

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There's so many unknowns - probably some unknowables - there that it really isn't worth the effort.

You buy unknown product - you get undefined behaviour.

 

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

Now i want to know if the STM32F103 and the STM32F407 soldered are a fakeones .

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The chances of them being genuine are vanishingly small

 

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

I'm already thinking to buy a Genuine IC and replace it with hot air on both Boards.

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Is that really worth it, compared to the cost of a Nucleo board? And the risk that the rework may not go well ...

Especially as a beginner, the last thing you want is flaky hardware.

 

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

I'm just asking help regarding STLink-V3minie and why not connects.

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Because it's designed to connect to genuine STM32s - behaviour with anything else is undefined.

 

 

[BarryWhit]

 >  i read somewhere that ST do not allow Clones

"somewhere on the internet" is not my idea of a reliable source.

 

I'm just saying, you having difficulties with some boards is not compelling evidence that ST is suddenly blacklisting fake devices. There has been no recent uptick in the number of reports on issues with cloned chips or programmers. Please don't propagate phony "some people say" rumors without actual evidence to back it up. Doing so is harmful.  

 

You'll have less uncertainty with original products, but you can also usually get clones to work.

 

Stay away from Mecrisp Stellaris, no newbie should waste time going down the rabbit-hole of a project written in a custom flavor of Forth - "ask me how I know".

[MaurizioAndaloro]

Should i ask? how you know? Haha

I'll be more careful with internet, but it is true that ST is doing something to avoid clones, no? As you said StLinks check if the Chip is made by ST.

I'll do something with those clones.

I'm a Vessel Technician, working for a company. I'm looking for a good microcontroller that can handle some ( more as possible ) UARTs, CANs, to realize interface boards to be connected eachother and to other devices. The F407 is enough good for my purposes but you know, i've to test it, debug it, that's why i want to know regarding clones, i do not want a clone i want a genuine product to avoid issues like the one we're talking about

 

[Andrew Neil]

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@MaurizioAndaloro wrote:

i do not want a clone i want a genuine product to avoid issues like the one we're talking about

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So avoid the Blue (and other coloured) Pills - they will (almost) certainly be fakes.

Buy a genuine Nucleo (which includes a genuine ST-Link) from an authorised distributor.

[BarryWhit]

> As you said StLinks check if the Chip is made by ST.

I said nothing of the kind.

 

It's true that the supply chain for F103 in particular is so polluted, I'd just stay away from that part number entirely.

Both it and F3 are quite old parts, and some newer offerings offer lots of peripherals while still keeping things relatively simple. I like the G4 as a starter MCU. H5/H7 are much too complicated, and even the recent U5 (although great) involved a relative step-up in complexity.

 

If you're doing development for any kind of commercial project then, please, by all that is good and holy, stick with reputable distributors and original products.

[BarryWhit]

ah,  Baader–Meinhof Effect, you have humbled me once more.

 

From Black Magic Probe Repo:

 

STLINK-V3 features 
[...]

The ST firmware checks the Romtable and only allows access to STM32 devices. In some
situations, Romtable access may also fail on STM32 device and so a debugger warm 
plug will fail. Cold plug should work with any STM32 device.

 

I'm not sure what is meant by "romtable", but my guess would be some kind of vendor ID check, and some clones may fail this. I know that some cloned F103 chips have an ST vendor ID, just one that's for the wrong chip.

 

But, I think this is confirmation (importantly, sourced confirmation) that the ST-LINK v3 possibly contains some countermeasures which make it incompat with fake chips.

 

Thanks goes to @Andrew Neil  for pointing out the BMP project in another thread, I wasn't aware of it prior.

[Andrew Neil]

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@BarryWhit wrote:

my guess would be some kind of vendor ID check, and some clones may fail this. I know that some cloned F103 chips have an ST vendor ID, just one that's for the wrong chip.r.

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From the  Mecrisp Stellaris  Richi's Lab pages referenced from another thread linked earlier, it does seem that some "clones" try to impersonate a genuine ST device, while others openly admit their own identity.

See: https://www.richis-lab.de/STM32.htm

That was the initial cause of the problem in this thread:

https://community.st.com/t5/stm32-mcus-products/blue-pill-stm32f1-board-gets-programmed-through-arduino-ide-but/td-p/667923

The device was openly admitting  its own (non-ST) identity, and the IDE (Keil) was correctly saying, "This is not the (ST) chip you're looking for"

 

Edited: corrected source of information

[BarryWhit]

Right, compatible chips are not "fake" chips. The GD32F103C8 is/was a competitor. GigaDevice is a legit company, you can find their (winbond compatible, btw) flash chips inside pricey products from big western brands.

 

Even for actually fake chips, I mean those that bear an ST logo but have different silicon inside, it's important to know that the chip manufacturer is probably not the guilty party. Sanding off and re-badging the chips and even repackaging old dies can be done economically in china. Meanwhile, Adafruit sells the Black Magic Probe HW board for 75$ (they also pay NYC rent).

[Peter BENSCH]

ST resources are only dedicated to supporting genuine ST products. We are not committed to ensuring that clones/fakes products work properly with the firmware we provide.

We recommend to purchase genuine products from STMicroelectronics and purchase them from known and trusted distributors.

This thread will now be locked. However, if you face difficulties while using genuine ST products, we’re here to assist you. Please feel free to start a new thread, and our team, along with community members, will be ready to help you with any issues/questions you encounter.

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards
/Peter