What do "Download" and "Upload" mean?

[Andrew Neil]

In the Good Old Days, "Download" always meant sending stuff to the Target (ie, programming), and "Upload" meant getting stuff from the Target (reading).

But the ones at Arduino have messed that up, saying "Upload" for programming the Target.

eg, https://docs.arduino.cc/software/ide-v2/tutorials/getting-started/ide-v2-uploading-a-sketch

:confounded_face: :\

Please clarify what STM32CubeProgrammer means when it says, "Download" and "Upload".

The terms should probably be avoided now.

:\

[Dana Myers]

Based on my experience, "Download" means programming the STM32, and "Upload" means reading it.

[Tesla DeLorean]

Yes, but as Andrew points out Arduino uses it differently, and Upload/Download are frequently used interchangeably. Perhaps also because Upgrade and Update are regularly used as terms too.

If I understand Andrew's request, it is that "Download/Write To Device/Target" and "Upload/Read from Device/Target" be stated more explicitly and in a non-ambiguous manner.

[Andrew Neil]

@Community member​ "If I understand Andrew's request"

Yes, you got it exactly! :ok_hand: :thumbs_up:

[waclawek.jan]

Burn!

That's because I have problem with "program" (as a verb).

OK, it's radical, I get it. Write and Read (and Verify) are unambiguous and IMO already generally accepted.

JW

PS. I also have a problem with the generally childish (a.k.a. "modern") design of CubeProgrammer's UI. ST, please get some adults to explain the programmers the merits of hierarchical menus and conventional placement of controls.

[ssipa.1]

The download means to download from your PC to the Arduino board

and upload is from the board to the PC

[Andrew Neil]

@ssipa.1​ "download means to download from your PC to the Arduino"

not according to Arduino documentation, it doesn't!

That's my point: the term is ambiguous and, therefore, either needs to be clarified or avoided.

[DMcGo.1]

I think Arduino got it right. When you download something you are transferring something from there to here. When you are uploading something you are transferring something from here to there. Try using file transfer software for FTP/SFTP for example. Upload means transferring a local file to a remote server. Download means transferring a remote file to the local computer. So when you upload code from your IDE you are transferring code from here (the computer) to there (the device being programmed).

[Andrew Neil]

Example confusion: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00001RgIl3SAF/i-was-wondering-about-the-term-download-in-stm32cubeprogrammer-download-normally-means-transferring-something-from-the-device-to-the-computer-upload-means-transferring-from-computer-to-device-why-is-it-named-the-opposite-in-this-tool

[WMart.2]

While exploring the Internet, you've probably encountered the terms downloading and uploading. Downloading means receiving data or a file from the Internet on your computer. Uploading means sending data or a file from your computer to somewhere on the Internet.

[Andrew Neil]

But, again, that is "down" from the "Bigger System" (the Internet) to the "smaller" (your computer).

So, taking that analogy, it should be down from your PC to a target microcontroller.

Which just brings us back to the point that it's ambiguous, so is best be avoided - especially as there are clear, easy, and unambiguous alternatives available.

[waclawek.jan]

This - and the messy controls, and "modern look and feel" - are probably generations problem.

For young people everything is new and they have to adopt to changes often, they find it natural and good to reinvent the wheel.

For most people it takes time and painful experience to grow to appreciate clean, unambiguous design sticking to traditional layouts and paradigms.

JW

PS. In case my previous post was not clear enough: Read, Write, Verify.